Which “Traditionalist” Model to Follow? Lefebvre vs Cardinal Burke

Which “Traditionalist” Model to Follow?  Lefebvre vs Cardinal Burke

By:  Eric Gajewski

Was Vatican II ‘heaven sent”?  Should Catholic’s follow along with this new “pastoral program” for the ages?  We have answered these questions extensively here at TradCatKnight and still there are many wondering which model to follow?  Is it Archbishop Lefebvre or the “conservative” cardinal type such as Cardinal Burke?  Who truly holds the counter -revolutionary position?  Over the past few weeks I have been getting even stronger resistance from those who cling to the notion that Cardinal Burke is some type of “savior figure” for the Church but is this so?  His recent comments on the SSPX only exposed him as a false traditionalist but does the Neo-SSPX say this about the “conservatives” as Levebvre once did?  Absolutely not.  We don’t want to offend anyone’s feelings, right?  Is Cardinal Burke seeing this apostasy clearly?  The answer is a resounding no.  Should we have hope of him “seeing the light”?  I shall cover this topic and others in the following article.

Which model to follow?  If Vatican II has errors and heresies in it then the model to follow is Lefebvre.  Anyone who has basic knowledge on FreeMasonry can see the blatant Masonism in these texts as I have covered so why doesn’t Cardinal Burke?  Put aside the false traditionalist argument that there are just ambiguities in the Council and we see the pastoral beginning of a “NewChurch”.  Think that is silly talk?  Consider John Paul II called the post Vatican II church the “Church of the New Advent”.  Pope Paul the 6^th called it the Conciliar Church repeatedly.  Various Cardinals admitted the Council was the “French Revolution” in the Church as Lefebvre did so why all the hate towards for me pointing out Cardinal Burke’s errors?  “We believe we can affirm, purely by internal and external criticism of Vatican II, i.e. by analyzing the texts and studying the Council’s ins and outs, that by turning its back on tradition and breaking with the Church of the past, it is a schismatic council.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, Le Figaro, August 4, 1976)

You are just a hater.  All I get in return from these types following Burke as the “guiding star” in this crisis is loose statements without any meat in them.  I can point out all day long how Burke, follows the Vatican II program which includes: collegiality, ecumenism and religious liberty and all I get back in return is “you are a hater” or “you are outside the church” or he is “fighting from within!”.  Actually charity demands I point this out and those following Vatican II are objectively speaking outside the Church.  Furthermore, how can he be fighting from within whilst following Vatican II?  This means we have clear “position differentiations” between Lefebvre and Burke.  These two did not think alike. In fact, Lefebvre said, of the conservative types, that, they were more dangerous than, the Bergoglio types of today. Why?  Because they give an appearance of Tradition while still holding onto heresy.  No, I am not a hater but trying to point out not only the differences between the two but why Burke is wrong and needs to correct his errors/heresies.  Fr. Hesse said the same on these conservative types for those scoring at home.  

 Padre Pio visitng Lefebvre who he supported.  Padre Pio told Pope Paul 6th to end the Council and refused to say the New Mass.

Cardinal Burke and those following Vatican II need a formal correction.  But who is going to give it?  Bishop Fellay?  Not a chance he is too busy trying to be recognized by the heretics of Rome.  Bishop Williamson? Or any of the other Resistance/Sedevacantist bishops?  Possibly but not likely due to all of the animosity between the varying camps.  So we are in a “pickle” as they say. This is why God’s Justice will clear the deck.  He always has a way for getting eyes to open and sadly the conservative types do not have the eyes of an eagle just yet… perhaps never.  This is why we must continue to pray earnestly for the Church, prelates and priests.  It does us no good to examine, point out, complain, admonish if we are not praying and making reparation on our end.  There are those who say I wish Burke were Pope!  Why?  So he can just continue the Vatican II Program?  How is that “draining the swamp” when he is already in it?

Who has left the Church?  Lefebvre answers: “What could be clearer? We must [according to Rome] henceforth obey and be faithful to the Conciliar Church, no longer to the Catholic Church. Right there is our whole problem: we are suspended a divinis by the Conciliar Church, the Conciliar Church, to which we have no wish to belong! That Conciliar Church is a schismatic church because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship… The Church that affirms such errors is at once schismatic and heretical. This Conciliar Church is, therefore, not Catholic. To whatever extent Pope, Bishops, priests, or the faithful adhere to this new church, they separate themselves from the Catholic Church.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, Reflections on his suspension a divinis, July 29, 1976) Keep in mind we are speaking of a material schism not formal schism as sedevacantists profess.  The Problem of “buildings”. Self-identifying Catholics are obsessed with “building’s” as if the early Christians always had buildings to house their faith.  They have the building we have the Faith St. Athansaius said which is what Lefebvre reiterated.  Sadly, if it says Catholic on the front of the building many will commune there no matter what the priest believes!

Obedience. Some argue Burke is just fighting from within and we must be obedient but this is not true.  Burke is fighting for the Novus ordo principles (sometimes heretical) of Vatican II and Lefebvre fought for the Catholic Faith.  Therefore, no obedience is owed to Him until He obeys Tradition and the Faith which Vatican II does not represent.  “The Church is destroying herself by the path of obedience… The masterstroke of Satan is thus to spread the principles of revolution from within the Church, and under the authority of the Church itself… he has succeeded in getting those whose duty it is to defend and propagate the Church, to condemn those who are defending the Catholic Faith…” (Archbishop Lefebvre, “The Problem of Obedience”) 

“Now our disobedience is motivated by the need to keep the Catholic Faith. The orders being given us clearly express that they are being given us in order to oblige us to submit without reserve to the Second Vatican Council, to the post-conciliar reforms, and to the prescriptions of the Holy See, that is to say, to the orientations and acts which are undermining our Faith and destroying the Church. It is impossible for us to do this. To collaborate in the destruction of the Church is to betray the Church and to betray Our Lord Jesus Christ.  Now all the theologians worthy of this name teach that if the pope, by his acts, destroys the Church, we cannot obey him (Vitoria: Obras, pp.486-487; Suarez: De fide, disp.X, sec.VI, no.16; St. Robert Bellarmine: de Rom. Pont., Book 2, Ch.29; Cornelius a Lapide: ad Gal. 2,11, etc.) and he must be respectfully, but publicly, rebuked.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, “Can Obedience Oblige us to Disobey?” from the July 1988 edition of “The Angelus Magazine”, statement originally given March 29th, 1988)

That is just your opinion.  Well, yes but that doesn’t make me wrong.  Again, loose statements.  I had the owner of the “sensus fidelium’ youtube channel present this argument to me as if I should now accept his false trad opinion.  No, Lefebvre is right and you are wrong.  Pretty simple.  And we cannot nor will not collaborate with you because the Faith says we can’t.  Unless you can properly demonstrate how Vatican II wasn’t Masonism in action then we really can’t dialogue further (which they cant).  Someone must be right and it isn’t Burke.  The problem first stems in the doctrines of Vatican II themselves.  If the Council was self admittingly the French Revolution in the Church (Suenens/Ratzinger) then how can Burke be the leader of the Counter Revolution?  Something for the semi trads to ponder.  It will always come back to the Council itself and thus there will always be division until God “weeds out” and gets who he really needs in place for the Triumph to come.  Will Burke be apart of this?  Will see….The problem is the majority, including the false-trads, don’t see Vatican II as a problem which is why Our Lord said FEW in the end would be  faithful.  It is sad to think about, but even some semi trads, will take the mark of beast, marching along, like lemming’s, off of, the cliffs of apostasy.

HOPE.  Absolutely.  We should have hope for all those who don’t see clearly at this time.   How things will work out remains to be seen.  Prophecy demonstrates that only a minority will flee from the formalized one world religion in Rome.  We all have free will.  The Conservatives could end up taking the mark of the beast due to pressure or join the real Resistance eventually.  But that position will crumble much like Protestantism will in the times ahead.  It will be the New Age or Catholic Tradition aka Catholicism not any “in-betweener” position in the not so distant future.  I find that many of the semi- trads just cant possibly fathom “we are in those times” or they fear they are leaving the Church by not going to their local diocesan Latin Mass.  The problem is you join in with material heretics by doing so and offend God objectively speaking.  It would be mortal sin to commune in these buildings knowing full well they are not keeping the Faith.  Thus, if the Church doesn’t supply you with a proper Mass (priest resisting Vatican II/New Mass) then you are not committing mortal sin by not attending (as Fr. Hesse points out).  Think the faithful go to Mass weekly in China?  Folks, the Apostasy is here it is time in charity to point out these errors of the “conservatives” and move forward. 

So the Remnant/Neo-SSPX (to some degree), Father Z, Father Heilman, Onepeterfive and Churchmiltant all have it wrong.  In the end, unless Burke repents he simply is continuing on the Apostasy of Vatican II and the Revolution.  When you try to “mish mash” every position together at some sort of  “trad-ecumenism event” you only create further confusion.  It simply doesn’t fly.  There can be no unity between those who view Vatican II as a “council” of the Church and those who see it as the beginning of the Cult of man (self-admitted  by Pope Paul 6th).  Someone has to be right and it was Archbishop Lefebvre the modern-day St. Athanasius who said ROME HAD ALREADY LOST THE FAITH.  Unfortunately, it is the “semi or false trad” type, which, has, almost elevated, Burke, to “celebrity or savior” status, because he says the Latin Mass and fights against Francis.  This is dangerous to say the least considering he is still a part of the Church’s problem.  But why am I wrong again if Vatican II is not right?

RELATED:

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2017/01/false-traditionalist-fixation-with.html#more

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2014/08/will-real-archbishop-lefebvre-please.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2017/04/false-traditionalist-cardinal-burke.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2016/12/bishop-schneider-exposes-himself-as.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2016/02/traditionalists-agree.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2015/01/archbishop-lefebvres-greatest-quotes-iii.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2017/04/archbishop-lefebvre-vatican-ii-is.html
http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/177bev04_27_2015.htm

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