Refutation to Fr. Carota's "Danger of Isolation" article

Humble & Charitable Refutation to Fr. Carota's "Danger of Isolation" article

(traditionalcatholicpriest.com)

Exposing Pseudo Traditionalism: "Isolationalism??"

Q: Can a Catholic "commune" with non-Catholics, that is, worship or receive Sacraments (generally) from one who is not holding the true Faith and Gospel?

A: In the Negative!
Thus, let us proceed to analyze the latest impotent attempt to refute our position from Pseudo traditionalist Fr. Carota...

The purpose of this article is not to detract but to enlighten. Over the years I have made many enemies from the sedevacantist camp but moreso from the pseudo traditionalist camp (the Remnant, Rorate, Voris, Father Z, Neo-SSPX). Pseudo traditionalists like Fr. Carota do not grasp or unwilling to accept that Vatican II has issued a whole new subjectivist/modernist Faith into play, of which, a Catholic cannot commune with.  To separate ourselves from heresy is the Catholic thing to do, in fact, it is the only thing to do, there is no other option. Could anyone of us imagine St. Athanasius saying "Yes, the Arians are heretics but don't leave those buildings, stay inside them to work from within??..." This would be preposterous to say the least.  The pseudo traditionalist camp VASTLY undersells the reality of this crisis and reduce everything to just error, which is, an error, in and of itself.   Which is why we cannot be with them nor label them a true traditionalist because Catholics cannot accept the Council wholesale nor try to pretend to fit itself into something which is not Catholic EVEN IF THEY STILL HAVE JURISDICTION (which they do). The solution is logical as Archbishop Lefebvre pointed out. The abolishment of Vatican II starting from the top of the Church which would trickle down (for it is the superiors who make the inferiors not the other way around).

St. Athanasius, the "Isolationalist"?? I could only venture to say that there were pseudo traditionalists of his time saying the same of St. Athanasius.  (outside of calling him excommunicated and a heretic)

Isaias (Isaiah) 42:18
Hear, ye deaf, and, ye blind, behold that you may see.

First, the Good: 

1) Fr. Carota acknowledges "something" is wrong...

In the article Fr. Carota acknowledges that something is wrong but improperly analyzes. The Latin Mass was never suppressed because it is the only true Mass of the Latin Rite. Thus denouncing the old myth from the pseudo traditionalist camp that the Novus Ordo Mass is the "Ordinary Form" or is a deepening of the same Latin Rite which it is not. The New Mass is the modernists (noncatholic) new expression of worship which is both illicit and schismatic (per dogmatic Trent, Can 7 Sess 13)

2) Fr. Carota acknowledges there is a "process"... 

Like conversion, to escape the claws of the Novus Ordo, one must pray and educate themselves in this Modernist Crisis.  Most of us have been in the Novus Ordo, therefore, we are in agreement, as I have always stated, TO BE EXTREMELY COMPASSIONATE and helpful to those still trapped in the Conciliar Church (which is not Catholic).  The process for some may last a lifetime for others maybe some months, however, we must keep stating, why the Novus Ordo is not the catholic religion and do so on the objective level. Where the Catholic Faith is NOT you cannot be that is Catholic teaching. As Catholics we are DOCTRINE first people, therefore, we cannot bow down to human respect and slide with those who are already in error (under the guise of "niceness").  The problem is that Fr. Carota's evaluation is far from the truth, therefore, even he must continue to research because he is in "full communion" with noncatholics. I remind everyone that in order to be "in the Church" at this point one must accept Vatican II and can a Catholic do that? Answer, In the negative! We cling to Eternal Rome which is now found outside those mainstream buildings (largely).

 Q: Is the Resistance sedevacantist?

A: No, We maintain that the Popes have jurisdiction over the Church however they are not teaching the Catholic Faith, therefore, as the Church teaches us, we MUST separate ourselves from these noncatholics. Fr. Carota refuses to believe they are not noncatholics (an error of his).

3) Fr. Carota acknoledges that those in Novus Ordo are "not all evil"...

This is very true however we must remember to keep things on the objective level. Is the Novus Ordo religion being pastorally implemented thru the Vatican II sect the Catholic religion? Answer, no! Then can you save your soul in the Novus Ordo Relgion? Answer, no! Does this mean everyone in the Novus Ordo "is going to hell"? Answer, Absolutely not! And why? Because of invincible ignorance; because how of how many are not theologically astute enough to see those differences. It truly does come down to a lack of grace but we cannot subjectively judge anyone. Note: invincible ignorance CAN save your soul not WILL save your soul. We can only hope and pray for the best.  I would argue having done this for many years that a good number (Novus Ordites) are simply prideful and obstinate and this of course would be true protestantism (to Tradition). The Novus Ordo sect is protestant. Those rejecting Vatican II are the Catholics...what evil times we live! Everything is seemingly upside down from state to Church matters. I am ALWAYS open to teaching those who will listen but in the end I will not compromise with those who accept the Revolution in ant form or fashion. There are still ALOT of good willed people trying to come to the understanding of what is happening in this crisis.

THE BAD:

1) There is no such thing as a Novus Ordo Catholic...

Within the pseudo traditionalist circles Neo-SSPX included you find this term and yet it is not reality.  It is logical: the Novus Ordo is another religion and therefore those following it cannot be called Catholic. There is no mixing between light and darkness between Christ and Satan and truth with heresy. One either is Catholic or is not and the Novus Ordo is not Catholic. Vatican II is the modernist's new Faith preaching the GOSPEL of MAN (anathema). The end of Vatican II NewChurch is the soon formal schism, the invalid excathedra uniting all religions/humanity. Vatican II NewChurch turns Apostate soon. Then the gates of hell have prevailed! Answer, of course not! There will be conversions (after the chastisements start) by those Cardinals called conservative (in reality still are heretics) who will "see the light". Those following the Novus Ordo (Vatican II) objectively speaking are called Novus Ordites.

2) Negative knock on those rejecting Vatican II...

Even though we do not agree with sedevacantists and we say likewise that it can be dangerous one cannot call them outside the Church for holding such an opinion and why? Because there have been notable/esteemed theologians to teach such a long period of sedevacante WITHOUT condemnation form the Holy See prior to Vatican II. Thus dismissing the pseudo traditionalist myth that all sedevacantists are heretics. Not True! However, there are some (heretics) who are called feeneyites who deny baptism of desire/blood and still others who call the recognize and resist position heretical...these two groups ought be avoided. Vatican II is rupture form Tradition therefore the protestants are those following Vatican II not those following Tradition. Those still calling us heretics and schismatics are simply theological buffoons (cardinals, bishops, priests and laity alike.) 

 3) Almost every sede or member of Resistance says Novus Ordites are evil or going to hell...

Again we return to the question of objectivity. Can one save their soul in the Novus Ordo? Answer, No! But due to invincible ignorance they may....Is the Novus Ordo evil, in and of itself? Absolutely! Are those who obstinately reject Tradition and follow the new religion evil? Could be...it is more of a subjective question again dealing with a lack of grace. The Conciliar Church has been virtually cutoff from Gods grace hence why so many are blind. Which means your not getting what you think you are (spiritually/invisibly) when you go where Vatican II is taught. This is what happens when you give up on Catholic truth for lies...Are many going to hell because of the Novus Ordo? The N. O. religion is not our Faith and without the proper norm of Faith it is impossible to please God. Yes, many are indeed going to hell because of the erroneous teachings of Vatican II. This is something Fr. Carota doesnt admit in his watered down impotent position. 

4) His support of Pope Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum...

This is common folly of the pseudo traditionalists to think the New Mass can still be accepted at all or that it is the "Ordinary Form". The latest folly is the Neo-SSPX and their acceptance of the new hybrid TLM/NO MASS which is grievous sin(compromise).  The true Mass never needed "freeing" what remains is only the rejection of the New Mass and finding those priests who reject both the Vatican II revolution and its new Mass made by heretics.  If you attend a church wherein they are speaking "Extraordinary/Ordinary" Form of the Mass you need to get out of there it is assuredly a compromised church. 

5) He identifies himself as a traditional catholic...

Like all pseudo traditionalists they identify themselves as such but they are not. Catholics do not accept the Revolution, therefore, those who do in any form or fashion or to whatever degree, cannot bare the name "traditionalist". Hence, why we call them pseudo traditionalists. Vatican II is not Tradition it is Modernism, Liberalism, Masonry, Marxism, Gnosticism, Illuminism, Protestantism, Universalism, Subjectivism anything BUT Catholicism. Sadly, Fr. Carota is not a traditional catholic.

 6) He actually uses the verbiage "modernist Catholic"!

WHAT IN THE WORLD! When did Pope St. Pius X and papal teaching ever identify modernists with being Catholics! This has to be the most egregious error of his article. A modernist is not a Catholic and the pseudo traditionalist groups like the Remnant, Rorate, Father Z do not qualify the leaders of the Conciliar Church to be as such therefore they are in error. Pseudo- traditionalism as I have always said is FAR more dangerous than sedevacantism. It is these type of silly mistakes that lead so many into error.

7) We must stay in the Church argument....

This is the constant repetitive error coming form the pseudo traditionalist groups like FSSP, ICK, GOOD SHEPHERD, etc. Who has "left the Church"??? If I do not teach heresy (prove that I do) then I have not left the Church even if I do not attend the mainstream structure and why? BECAUSE THEY ARE TEACHING THE NOVUS ORDO RELIGION!  Fr. Carota does not understand that where the Catholic Faith is not the Catholic Church is not. Thus, on one hand, although, those following Vatican II have jurisdiction and the right to command that does mean they are doing so (teaching) licitly. Although they have not YET been formally removed as heretics (to come later at a Council) this does not mean we stay in those structures where the NEW RELIGION IS!  As Archbishop Lefebvre taught the Conciliar Popes are OVER two churches; the Catholic Church (in so far as they have power to command) and the heretical/schismatic NEW CHURCH (which they think is Catholic). The Council called itself Catholic but was not and neither were the Vatican II Popes. It is only time before justice will condemn them as noncatholics (as modernists, liberals even possibly masons) Thus the Conciliar Church is not the Catholic Church (where the true faith is). We still are "under the Pope" in so far as we recognize his jurisdiction and power to command. This is what the Catholic Church teaches us to do "to resist and keep our distance" from heresy. It is FAR MORE Dangerous to be a pseudo traditionalist like Fr. Carota then to be a supposed "isolationist" which as an argument is not found in Scripture, Tradition or general Catholic teaching. 

8) We can be too extreme...

Do I really need to answer this one? I shall answer with a quote form St. Anthony of the Desert " A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, "You are mad; you are not like us." YES! We are extreme; we are bigots; we are anti semitic ; we are extremists according to this godless liberal world where TRUTH is hardly found and in a world which unified itself with Vatican II and is leading souls into the New age Religion. We follow the Catholic Religion not the Novus Ordo Religion. 

9) We make ourselves out to be "superior"
This is another misconception. Although we agree we must be on guard against pride to defend the catholic Faith and not compromise is not "being superior".  Because we do not accept the error of pseudo-traditionalism nor sedevacantism this doe not mean we believe we are superior to anyone. We should not hold this disposition with any non-catholic sect including the Novus Ordites.  Unfortunately it may appear this way because there are very FEW non-heretical or uncompromised groups left in the world from our perspective and thus very few real catholics left even as the Saints said of our times.  Truth is superior to error in the sense that we hold the Faith and the Novus Ordites do not. Therefore, we must try to convert others out of their error.  The other groups of error only get mad because they believe we are wrong (which obviously we believe we are not).

 From the Comments section of his article:

1) Neo-SSPX'er chimes in and says his pastor says not to call the Novus Ordites, heretics...Can you see now why we say to stay away from the Neo-SSPXI They are following Remnant's teachings/position not the teachings of Archbishop Lefebvre.

2) More calling out for SSPX canonical status. The reality is the SSPX already has canonical status which was never truly relinquished. Because a modernist Pope says they no longer do holds no legal/spiritual bearing in reality (as a noncatholic). The truth is Modernist Rome needs converted not the SSPX needing a canonical status. But such are the impotent arguments of the pseudo traditionalists.

In summary: As usual, when dealing with the pseudo traditionalists, we are dealing with prelates, priests and laymen who vastly "undersell" the reality we live in. It is a position which is more comfortable because "the majority" can accept more of what they are saying so long as you say "you are in the Church". It is truly deceptive and may cost individuals their souls. That is the sad reality. I will continue to pray for this priest.  In the end, it is not a danger of "Isolation" on our part but a LACK of REALISM on his.  I was asked whether one should follow his analysis (blogs) or receive Sacraments from him and I answer, "you should not". Can someone please tell me again where St. Athanasius taught to stay "in those mainstream buildings" where Arianism was taught which had "Catholic" written on the outside of them? They have the buildings we HAVE THE FAITH. Be ye encouraged! #Resistance

Article in question:

http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2015/08/18/the-danger-of-traditional-catholic-isolation/ 

Related (Against Pseudo Traditionalism): 

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2015/07/get-out-of-van-while-you-can.html

http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2015/01/against-pseudo-traditionalism.html
http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2014/07/comfort-of-pseudo-traditionalist.html
http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2014/11/tradcatknight-radio-michael-voris.html
http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2014/04/false-resistance-or-masked-pseudo.html
http://tradcatknight.blogspot.com/2015/06/neo-sspx-remnant-rorate-sellouts-yes-sir.html

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