False Trad FSSP Priest Speaks....
These false trads are simply material heretics. Archbishop Lefebvre was our St. Athanasius for these times. Vatican 2 is to be rejected. It is these types of priests which are the most dangerous who are doctrinally unsound yet give the appearance of "tradition"
"No traditionalists, but simply Catholic"
The Pius Brotherhood may be a concept for many. Also the Brotherhood of Peter? Father Bernhard Gerstle, German district leader, talks in an interview about the concerns of the Petrusbrüder.
Question: Father Gerstle, the Brotherhood of Peter (FSSP), was born in 1988 as part of the Pius Brotherhood. They were immediately there. What exactly happened then?
Gerstle: I entered the priestly seminary of the Pius Brotherhood in Zaitzkofen in the autumn of 1985 and hoped that a Rome reconciliation would be possible as soon as possible. At first, the signs were relatively favorable. The revolt in Assisi, which Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre rejected, was a turning point in 1986. There were efforts on the part of Rome, especially by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, to avert the unauthorized bishops' ordinances in 1988 and yet to reach an agreement. This would have been almost successful by a text of agreement, which had been signed, but had been revoked a short time later by Lefebvre. I think the whole thing was based on a lack of confidence in Rome.
Question: And with the breaking break you and other members of the Pius Brotherhood did not want to go with you?
Gerstle: For me the decision was clear from the outset. In a break with Rome, I am on the side of the Pope. Many confreres wanted reconciliation with Rome, but did not succeed. So there were only a few priests and seminarians who had left the Pius Brotherhood. The fact that the founding and ecclesiastical recognition of the Brotherhood of Peter came to be was not to be expected and was due to Cardinal Ratzinger, the prefect of the Congregation of the Congregation.
Question: In what points does the FSSP differ from the Pius Brotherhood?
Gerstle: It must first be noted that there are different currents within the Pius Brotherhood. It is necessary to distinguish between the moderate wing and the hardliner wing. Above all in the German-speaking world, there are a larger number of moderate priests within the Pius Brotherhood who want to avoid a permanent break with Rome and are interested in an agreement. On the other hand, the hardliners who largely reject the Second Vatican Council, for example, the freedom of religion or ecumenical decree, some of which even doubt the validity of the new liturgy. The Brotherhood of Peter, on the other hand, has embarked on an unconditional study of the Council texts, and has come to the conclusion that there is no rupture to earlier lectures. However, some texts are formulated in such a way that they give rise to misunderstandings. In the meantime, however, there have been clarifications on the part of Rome, which the Pius Brotherhood should also recognize.
Question: Are there any other differences?
Gerstle: It goes without saying that the new church law of 1983 is also decisive for us. Here, on the part of the Pius Brotherhood, there seems to be a need for clarification. Likewise, terms such as "church" or even "church church" should be avoided. We reject these because they express not only a certain distance but also because there is no pre- and post-conciliar church for us. There is only one church that goes back to Christ. In addition, we always practice our apostolate in consultation with the respective bishops and priests on the ground and strive for a good cooperation. Almost everywhere our priests have a good relationship with the local church. We do not want to polarize or even split, but in the communities we serve to convey the faithful an ecclesiastical attitude. This also means that undeniable abuses and abuses must be named in the Church, but this must be done in a differentiated and moderate way.
Question: Nevertheless, the FSSP, like the Pius Brotherhood, is described as "traditionalist". Do you really like that?
Gerstle: I do not like the term at all. We are not "traditionalists" but simply Catholic. And as Catholics, we value tradition. But not in a way that we are completely blocking against organic adjustments and changes.
Question: What are the core concerns of the FSSP?
Gerstle: First, the celebration of the liturgy in the extraordinary Latin form. The endeavor for a worthy celebration of the Holy Mass in conjunction with a faithful proclamation is an important service in the sense of the Church. The concern for the salvation of souls, as Pope Francis emphasizes this time, must be our main core concern. We have to re-educate people that it is ultimately the eternal life, which decides here on earth. It is precisely in this sense that the message of Fatima, where the Holy Mother of God appeared a hundred years ago, should be recalled to men. In the past decades, the last things have unfortunately been pushed into the background in favor of more secondary topics, so that many Christians no longer know what is really the issue in this life. This has led to a trivialization of sin and a profound loss of confessional practices.
Question: Do you reject the new liturgy?
Gerstle: We recognize the new liturgy as valid and legitimate. But we do not close our eyes to the fact that with the liturgical form some developments have become independent, which lead away from what the mass is according to the faith of the church. Not infrequently, the sacrificial character is reduced to the background or there is a lack of respect for the holy of holies. We are very grateful to Pope Benedict XVI. On these negative developments. The question of whether the changes in the external form led to a rather Protestant understanding of the masses among a few priests and faithful, is the question whether the "ad orientem" celebratory celebration is still practiced.
Question: In your opinion, this would not have happened if you had stayed at the "Old Mass"?
Gerstle: Probably not to this extent. Certainly, this is not due solely to the changes in the liturgy. Also today's priestly education would have to be reconsidered. But the liturgy is an important mosaic stone as a whole, it is the visible expression of faith. It is precisely the many signs of reverence and worship associated with the extraordinary form of the mass, as well as the prayers, which illustrate the sacrificial character of the mass and express the great mystery that is performed on the altar.
Question: The Council called for a conscious and active participation of all believers . How does this fit in with the old liturgy in which the priest is, of course, more solitary, and the Latin language can hinder conscious comprehension?
Gerstle: The Council document on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, must be looked at carefully. There are nevertheless considerable differences fixed to what has then really been implemented. The document does not say that the Latin language should be abolished. Only the Landessprache should be granted a proper space. And this is something we also practice by, for example, writing the texts in our fairs in German. The faithful who come to us almost all have a German-Latin bulkhead book, and they all get along well. I see no obstacle in the language of conscious participation of the mass.
Question: But what about the active participation of the faithful?
Gerstle: In my opinion, the Council did not mean that now as many laity as possible should act as liturgical actors in the altar area. Rather, the faithful are more closely involved in the happenings of the sacred sacrifice. This is not necessarily to be seen as an activist, but so that they participate with greater spiritual fruit. In the past, many have prayed for the Rosary during the Mass. This was intended to end the Council and motivate it to be more conscious of the participation in the events.
Question: Benedict XVI. In 2007, by his writing Summorum Pontificum, has generally released the old liturgy again. Should it go back to the liturgical form?
Gerstle: I see that the old liturgy can not simply be introduced into the parishes again and again, and can certainly be put over to the people. This does not work, of course. The intention of Pope Benedict was, in my opinion, to create a benchmark for a possible reform of the reform . Both forms of the rite are thus to be mutually intertwined. I am convinced that certain elements of the old liturgy of the new do well, but also reverse elements of the new liturgy can be an enrichment for the extraordinary form of the Roman rite: I am thinking about the greater breadth of scripture in the Word of God or a quiet reflection The Holy Communion. Likewise, in the foreseeable future the Holy calendar for the extraordinary form should be updated.
Question: So you are counting on a new liturgical form?
Gerstle: At the moment, I do not think the topic is up-to-date. Pope Francis does not make the liturgy to the same extent as Pope Benedict. It sets other priorities. However, it is observed that interest in the old liturgy is growing in the younger clergy in particular. A growing number of priests at least occasionally celebrate the Mass in the extraordinary form. This certainly has repercussions on how the new liturgy is celebrated, so that the sacred again gains more influence.
Question: In the German church the priestly growth is a big problem. Does the FSSP share these concerns?
Gerstle: Of course we also feel the problems of the times. We do not live in an isolated room. However, last year we had 16 priestly ordinations. Our two priestly seminaries in Wigratzbad in the Allgäu and Denton in the USA are well filled with over a hundred seminarians. The average age of our priests is currently 37 years. All in all, we have a good intake, but it is not that we can hardly save ourselves from vocations.
Question: What about the number of worshipers?
Gerstle: In the German-speaking world, we have 23 branches or houses, of which further apostolates are cared for. The number of visitors is very different. In the larger units, 100 to 180 believers come to the Mass on Sundays. The tendency is however rising. All age classes are also represented. In our communities, the average of believers is usually much younger than in many parishes.
Question: What is the reason for this? Do young people feel attracted to the old liturgy?
Gerstle: For the young people, the old liturgy is certainly the new liturgy. They read, for example, on the Internet and are interested in it. Out of curiosity they enter our fairs and are often fascinated by this atmosphere of the saint. You have to accompany them, of course, with good catechesis and pastoral offers. If all this fits, then people come to the conviction that they find with us their necessary spiritual food.
Question: According to rumors, there might soon be an agreement between Rome and the Pius brethren. What is the relationship between Peter and Pius Brotherhood today and what brings the future?
Gerstle: More recently, the evidence that there is a reconciliation with Rome is growing. It can not be overlooked that the official leadership of the Pius Brotherhood has been opening up in recent years. Some priests also seek closer contact with us. The moderate wing is obviously ready for an agreement that is vehemently pushed forward by Rome and the present Pope. But there is also the Hardliner wing. The Pius Brotherhood will have to suffer considerable losses, perhaps even a split. I think that the current Generaloberst, Bishop Bernard Fellay, must decide between unity with Rome and unity within the Pius Brotherhood. The realists in the leadership will then hopefully recognize that there is no alternative to reconciling with Rome.
TCK: There is no extraordinary form. The TLM is the true Mass and the Novus ordo is an illicit/schismatic mass of the Conciliar Church.
Gerstle: I entered the priestly seminary of the Pius Brotherhood in Zaitzkofen in the autumn of 1985 and hoped that a Rome reconciliation would be possible as soon as possible. At first, the signs were relatively favorable. The revolt in Assisi, which Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre rejected, was a turning point in 1986. There were efforts on the part of Rome, especially by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, to avert the unauthorized bishops' ordinances in 1988 and yet to reach an agreement. This would have been almost successful by a text of agreement, which had been signed, but had been revoked a short time later by Lefebvre. I think the whole thing was based on a lack of confidence in Rome.
Question: And with the breaking break you and other members of the Pius Brotherhood did not want to go with you?
Gerstle: For me the decision was clear from the outset. In a break with Rome, I am on the side of the Pope. Many confreres wanted reconciliation with Rome, but did not succeed. So there were only a few priests and seminarians who had left the Pius Brotherhood. The fact that the founding and ecclesiastical recognition of the Brotherhood of Peter came to be was not to be expected and was due to Cardinal Ratzinger, the prefect of the Congregation of the Congregation.
Question: In what points does the FSSP differ from the Pius Brotherhood?
Gerstle: It must first be noted that there are different currents within the Pius Brotherhood. It is necessary to distinguish between the moderate wing and the hardliner wing. Above all in the German-speaking world, there are a larger number of moderate priests within the Pius Brotherhood who want to avoid a permanent break with Rome and are interested in an agreement. On the other hand, the hardliners who largely reject the Second Vatican Council, for example, the freedom of religion or ecumenical decree, some of which even doubt the validity of the new liturgy. The Brotherhood of Peter, on the other hand, has embarked on an unconditional study of the Council texts, and has come to the conclusion that there is no rupture to earlier lectures. However, some texts are formulated in such a way that they give rise to misunderstandings. In the meantime, however, there have been clarifications on the part of Rome, which the Pius Brotherhood should also recognize.
Question: Are there any other differences?
Gerstle: It goes without saying that the new church law of 1983 is also decisive for us. Here, on the part of the Pius Brotherhood, there seems to be a need for clarification. Likewise, terms such as "church" or even "church church" should be avoided. We reject these because they express not only a certain distance but also because there is no pre- and post-conciliar church for us. There is only one church that goes back to Christ. In addition, we always practice our apostolate in consultation with the respective bishops and priests on the ground and strive for a good cooperation. Almost everywhere our priests have a good relationship with the local church. We do not want to polarize or even split, but in the communities we serve to convey the faithful an ecclesiastical attitude. This also means that undeniable abuses and abuses must be named in the Church, but this must be done in a differentiated and moderate way.
Question: Nevertheless, the FSSP, like the Pius Brotherhood, is described as "traditionalist". Do you really like that?
Gerstle: I do not like the term at all. We are not "traditionalists" but simply Catholic. And as Catholics, we value tradition. But not in a way that we are completely blocking against organic adjustments and changes.
Question: What are the core concerns of the FSSP?
Gerstle: First, the celebration of the liturgy in the extraordinary Latin form. The endeavor for a worthy celebration of the Holy Mass in conjunction with a faithful proclamation is an important service in the sense of the Church. The concern for the salvation of souls, as Pope Francis emphasizes this time, must be our main core concern. We have to re-educate people that it is ultimately the eternal life, which decides here on earth. It is precisely in this sense that the message of Fatima, where the Holy Mother of God appeared a hundred years ago, should be recalled to men. In the past decades, the last things have unfortunately been pushed into the background in favor of more secondary topics, so that many Christians no longer know what is really the issue in this life. This has led to a trivialization of sin and a profound loss of confessional practices.
Question: Do you reject the new liturgy?
Gerstle: We recognize the new liturgy as valid and legitimate. But we do not close our eyes to the fact that with the liturgical form some developments have become independent, which lead away from what the mass is according to the faith of the church. Not infrequently, the sacrificial character is reduced to the background or there is a lack of respect for the holy of holies. We are very grateful to Pope Benedict XVI. On these negative developments. The question of whether the changes in the external form led to a rather Protestant understanding of the masses among a few priests and faithful, is the question whether the "ad orientem" celebratory celebration is still practiced.
Question: In your opinion, this would not have happened if you had stayed at the "Old Mass"?
Gerstle: Probably not to this extent. Certainly, this is not due solely to the changes in the liturgy. Also today's priestly education would have to be reconsidered. But the liturgy is an important mosaic stone as a whole, it is the visible expression of faith. It is precisely the many signs of reverence and worship associated with the extraordinary form of the mass, as well as the prayers, which illustrate the sacrificial character of the mass and express the great mystery that is performed on the altar.
Question: The Council called for a conscious and active participation of all believers . How does this fit in with the old liturgy in which the priest is, of course, more solitary, and the Latin language can hinder conscious comprehension?
Gerstle: The Council document on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, must be looked at carefully. There are nevertheless considerable differences fixed to what has then really been implemented. The document does not say that the Latin language should be abolished. Only the Landessprache should be granted a proper space. And this is something we also practice by, for example, writing the texts in our fairs in German. The faithful who come to us almost all have a German-Latin bulkhead book, and they all get along well. I see no obstacle in the language of conscious participation of the mass.
Question: But what about the active participation of the faithful?
Gerstle: In my opinion, the Council did not mean that now as many laity as possible should act as liturgical actors in the altar area. Rather, the faithful are more closely involved in the happenings of the sacred sacrifice. This is not necessarily to be seen as an activist, but so that they participate with greater spiritual fruit. In the past, many have prayed for the Rosary during the Mass. This was intended to end the Council and motivate it to be more conscious of the participation in the events.
Question: Benedict XVI. In 2007, by his writing Summorum Pontificum, has generally released the old liturgy again. Should it go back to the liturgical form?
Gerstle: I see that the old liturgy can not simply be introduced into the parishes again and again, and can certainly be put over to the people. This does not work, of course. The intention of Pope Benedict was, in my opinion, to create a benchmark for a possible reform of the reform . Both forms of the rite are thus to be mutually intertwined. I am convinced that certain elements of the old liturgy of the new do well, but also reverse elements of the new liturgy can be an enrichment for the extraordinary form of the Roman rite: I am thinking about the greater breadth of scripture in the Word of God or a quiet reflection The Holy Communion. Likewise, in the foreseeable future the Holy calendar for the extraordinary form should be updated.
Question: So you are counting on a new liturgical form?
Gerstle: At the moment, I do not think the topic is up-to-date. Pope Francis does not make the liturgy to the same extent as Pope Benedict. It sets other priorities. However, it is observed that interest in the old liturgy is growing in the younger clergy in particular. A growing number of priests at least occasionally celebrate the Mass in the extraordinary form. This certainly has repercussions on how the new liturgy is celebrated, so that the sacred again gains more influence.
Question: In the German church the priestly growth is a big problem. Does the FSSP share these concerns?
Gerstle: Of course we also feel the problems of the times. We do not live in an isolated room. However, last year we had 16 priestly ordinations. Our two priestly seminaries in Wigratzbad in the Allgäu and Denton in the USA are well filled with over a hundred seminarians. The average age of our priests is currently 37 years. All in all, we have a good intake, but it is not that we can hardly save ourselves from vocations.
Question: What about the number of worshipers?
Gerstle: In the German-speaking world, we have 23 branches or houses, of which further apostolates are cared for. The number of visitors is very different. In the larger units, 100 to 180 believers come to the Mass on Sundays. The tendency is however rising. All age classes are also represented. In our communities, the average of believers is usually much younger than in many parishes.
Question: What is the reason for this? Do young people feel attracted to the old liturgy?
Gerstle: For the young people, the old liturgy is certainly the new liturgy. They read, for example, on the Internet and are interested in it. Out of curiosity they enter our fairs and are often fascinated by this atmosphere of the saint. You have to accompany them, of course, with good catechesis and pastoral offers. If all this fits, then people come to the conviction that they find with us their necessary spiritual food.
Question: According to rumors, there might soon be an agreement between Rome and the Pius brethren. What is the relationship between Peter and Pius Brotherhood today and what brings the future?
Gerstle: More recently, the evidence that there is a reconciliation with Rome is growing. It can not be overlooked that the official leadership of the Pius Brotherhood has been opening up in recent years. Some priests also seek closer contact with us. The moderate wing is obviously ready for an agreement that is vehemently pushed forward by Rome and the present Pope. But there is also the Hardliner wing. The Pius Brotherhood will have to suffer considerable losses, perhaps even a split. I think that the current Generaloberst, Bishop Bernard Fellay, must decide between unity with Rome and unity within the Pius Brotherhood. The realists in the leadership will then hopefully recognize that there is no alternative to reconciling with Rome.
TCK: There is no extraordinary form. The TLM is the true Mass and the Novus ordo is an illicit/schismatic mass of the Conciliar Church.
