Salza & Siscoe: Liars & Heretics
Email Exchange between Fr. Kramer and "the sideshow" known as Siscoe and Salza
On the Salza/Siscoe website, Robert Siscoe suggests that I "fabricated out of thin air" a theologically erroneous quotation of John Salza:
"[H]e recently posted a “refutation” that contained an alleged quotation from John Salza that is not what he or I hold; and it is not what we argue in the book . John and I searched high and low for that alleged “quote” and it was nowh to be found, [...] Or did Fr. Kramer simply make up the quote out of thin air?"
Email exchange between myself and R. Siscoe:
《 Fr. Paul Kramer:
If Salza can't keep his own documents in order, that's not my problem.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Siscoe
Date:23/09/2016 19:45 (GMT+00:00)
To: Fr. Paul Kramer
Cc:
Subject: Re: Quote
You quoted it. You need to provide the source. Why is that so hard?
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 23, 2016, at 1:38 PM, Fr. Paul Kramer wrote:
I'm not your secretary. You had better look harder; and if you say I fabricated it, you will be made to eat your words.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Siscoe
Date:23/09/2016 17:43 (GMT+00:00)
To: Fr. Paul Kramer
Cc:
Subject: Re: Quote
Stop playing games and say where you got the quote. It is not a difficult question unless, of course, you completely fabricated it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fr. Paul Kramer
To: Robert Siscoe
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2016 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Quote
Perhaps this will refresh his memory: 《12 July 2014》
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Siscoe
Date:23/09/2016 12:49 (GMT+00:00)
To: Fr. Paul Kramer
Cc:
Subject: Re: Quote
I asked him about it and he says he didn't write that. It certainly doesn't reflect what either of us believe, nor what we write in the book. I originally thought he may have written something wrong by mistake, but I haven't been able to locate the quote anywhere. In fact, I read through some of his older writings and he never say material heretics lacks interior faith. And if you search the quote on the internet, it doesn't show up anywhere. Where did you find the quote?
-----Original Message-----
From: Fr. Paul Kramer
To: Robert Siscoe
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2016 5:19 am
Subject: Re: Quote
Don't even think that he will ever deny it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Siscoe
Date:23/09/2016 03:07 (GMT+00:00)
To: Fr. Paul Kramer
Cc:
Subject: Quote
Father,
Where did you find this quote from John: "An ignorant Catholic is not a heretic (formal or material) because he possesses divine faith and is invincibly ignorant of his heresy through no fault of his own. A material heretic is also invincibly ignorant of his heresy, but does not possess divine faith, thus rendering him a material heretic"? 》
Here is the message Salza sent me on 12/7/2014, containing the quotation WHICH SISCOE EXPLICITLY SUGGESTS I "FABRICATED OUT OF THIN AIR":
John Salza
12/7/2014
Father Paul, we agree on that point but evidently disagree on the terminology. As I explain in the article, there is a distinction between an ignorant Catholic and a material heretic (a distinction which I find in pre-Vatican II analysis). An ignorant Catholic is not a heretic (formal or material) because he possesses divine faith and is invincibly ignorant of his heresy through no fault of his own. A material heretic is also invincibly ignorant of his heresy, but does not possess divine faith, thus rendering him a material heretic. They both are invincibly ignorant, but one has divine faith and the other does not. That is, the Catholic still holds the Church as his infallible rule of Faith while the Protestant does not, and hence does not have divine faith. This is an important distinction that I see in pre but not post Vatican II theology (for example it is made in Fr. Muller's 1885 work on No Salvation outside the Church. This is why the Church to my knowledge has not defined material heretic, but only formal heretic (in canon law, her anathemas, etc.). That is because a Catholic can only be a formal heretic, while a Protestant can be either a formal or material heretic. I elaborate on this distinction in the article. I'm sure that you would agree with what I am saying, and hence if I define the terms as such, they are correctly used.
John
THESE TWO MISCREANTS CONSIST ESSENTIALLY OF FALSEHOOD AND DECEPTION.
NONSENSICAL STUPIDITIES OF SISCOE & SALZA:
"The question of the loss of office for a heretical pope contains a questions of fact and questions of law."
"The question of fact is whether the pope is, in fact, a heretic; questions of law pertain to if, when, or how, a heretical pope would cease to be pope."
COMMENT: There is nothing in Canon Law that addresses the question of loss of office for a heretical pope. Salza & Siscoe are peddling snake oil, as usual. The question of loss of office for a heretical pope is strictly a question of speculative theology. The Church does not provide for any remedy in Canon Law. In the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia one reads, "No canonical provisions exist regulating the authority of the College of Cardinals sede Romanâ impeditâ, i.e. in case the pope became insane, or personally a heretic; in such cases it would be necessary to consult the dictates of right reason and the teachings of history."
"The question of the loss of office for a heretical pope contains a questions of fact and questions of law."
"The question of fact is whether the pope is, in fact, a heretic; questions of law pertain to if, when, or how, a heretical pope would cease to be pope."
COMMENT: There is nothing in Canon Law that addresses the question of loss of office for a heretical pope. Salza & Siscoe are peddling snake oil, as usual. The question of loss of office for a heretical pope is strictly a question of speculative theology. The Church does not provide for any remedy in Canon Law. In the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia one reads, "No canonical provisions exist regulating the authority of the College of Cardinals sede Romanâ impeditâ, i.e. in case the pope became insane, or personally a heretic; in such cases it would be necessary to consult the dictates of right reason and the teachings of history."